the Cat wrote: |
Still the hadiths are reliable because... the hadiths say so... as per skynightblaze! |
skynightblaze wrote: |
To debunk Abu Huraira you brought up quotes from Umar,Uthman and Ali and Aisha so a sane person would believe that you consider them as reliable but together these 4 people narrated 3429(146+ 536 + 537 + 2210) hadiths and yet you make statements like all the hadiths are crap . |
skynightblaze wrote: |
In short Umar,Uthman,Aisha and Ali are reliable only when they speak against Abu huraira but not otherwise. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
More ever your arguments against Abu huraira which you borrowed from Shias have been debunked already in the link I gave. What you do is merely pick on one or two incidences to make accusations against Abu huraira. Abu Huraira wasnt any God to be perfect and you also fail to understand that had the accusations that you made against Abu Huraira true then none would have trusted him.He would have been killed by muhammad himself as per 5:33 . The link I gave provides evidence that Abu Huraira was even trusted by grandsons of Umar so it can be established that whatever accusations Umar made against Huraira were unproven . |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Also I would like to know the source of your arguments which you make against Abu Huraira. I have a guess that they are the shia ones. You have to first establish authenticity of sources that you use against Abu Huraira . |
skynightblaze wrote: |
@Bahgat
|
skynightblaze wrote: |
Since when did Ibn kathir become acceptable source for you? |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Are you sure you trust Ibn Kathir? |
skynightblaze wrote: |
If yes then allow me please to bring in Ibn Kathir to demolish your religion. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
You cant selectively pick from the sources that suit your agenda. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Its time to dismiss your first argument. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Now lets come to the main argument here?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ |
Ahmed wrote: |
b]Musim Bin Al-Hjaj said that a few people said that Bashar Bin Saeed said: Fear Allah and memorise the hadith, as by Allah we sat with Abu Hurairah and he was transmitting hadith about the Messenger of Allah and Kaab Al-Ahbar. Then he goes and talks about it but I hear him making the haidth of the Messenger of Allah as to be from Kaab Al-Ahbar and the hadith of Kaab Al-Ahbar as to be from the Messenger of Allah. In another story, the same was said about Abu Hurairah. And Yazeed Bin Harun said: I heard Shubbah saying, Abu Hurairah used to fabricate by saying what he heard from Kaab and the Messenger of Allah while not differentiating between them. Ibn Asaakir also mentioned the same story And Shubbah used to point to that in his hadith |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Firstly as Centaur |
skynightblaze wrote: |
pointed out establishing the fact that one of its narrator was corrupt doesn?????????????????????¢??t me an all the hadiths are corrupt. Secondly you are abundantly dumb enough to give me a break through. This one is easy to refute. Let me start now.. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
You refer to the book of Ibn Kathir to make your point. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
If you trust Ibn Kathir |
skynightblaze wrote: |
on this then please give me the liberty to attack your man made book quran using Ibn Kathir. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Also which hadith is this? is it sahih? |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Secondly a bum like you didn?????????????????????¢??t read the hadith properly. Read that you filthy arse?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦
The hadith starts with?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Fear Allah and memorise the hadith |
skynightblaze wrote: |
If you trust the narrator on reliability of facts about Abu Huraira then you should also trust in what he said about the hadiths?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ |
skynightblaze wrote: |
If the hadiths arent required at all why did this fellow ask people to memorize hadiths? |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Doesn?????????????????????¢??t it mean that hadiths have an importance in the religion of islam? |
skynightblaze wrote: |
Let me summarize here again?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ |
skynightblaze wrote: |
IF we are accept these hadiths then you need to accept all the things that Ibn Kathir says and not just what suits your need and also you need to accept the fact that hadiths are an important part of islam because the same narrator while attacking Abu Huraira also specifies the importance of hadith as he asks people to memorize them?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦Its obvious if future people are to know the hadiths they have to be written down so there you go down the drain.
Dismissed Note that I havent even bothered to go into deep to find out who this Shuba was and how much reliable he was.I just know abu bakhr never trusted this fellow.Without going into the details of the reliability of this source I have refuted your first argument. Whenever you make a valid point I will accept it but this is going to lead us nowhere because the sources that you and Cat bring up can hardly be classified as authentic so its really a cat and mouse game leading us no where. Btw I am not here to defend Abu huraira. You may shove him up your arse. I specifically asked you why the hadiths showing muhammad in bad light are false. Please start refuting those hadiths instead of attacking Abu huraira. I repeat I am open to the thought that Abu Huraira could have narrated some of the hadiths incorrectly but I aint open to the thought that all the hadiths are a lie and especially the ones which show muhammad is negative light. |
BMZ wrote: |
The kid skynightblaze asked for it and you gave him a good one, mate.
You titled it soooo well: The New Slam Dunk Show - Starring Abu Hurairah and sky FFI If you have the chance, ask these FFI hadith lovers to shove Abu Hurairah, up their arses. Here are some interesting quotes about Abu Hurairah, one of the most prominent Hadith Fabricators: When Aisha said to Abu Hurayra ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????You are reporting false hadiths you never heard from the Prophet,?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? he had retorted impudently: ?????????????????????¢??I see that mirror and kohl have kept you aloof from the Prophet.?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Zahabi, Siyeru Alemin Nubela Ali said: ?????????????????????¢??The person who ascribed the greatest number of lies to God?????????????????????¢??s Messenger is Abu Hurayra.?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Ibn Abul Hadid, Sherhu Nahjul Belagha When Ali heard him say, alluding to the Prophet: ?????????????????????¢??My dear friend said that...?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? He asked: ?????????????????????¢??Since when has the Prophet become your dear friend??????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Salaams BMZ |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
Just posted it on FFI, mate http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7680&p=123770#p123770 |
skynightnoblaze wrote: |
Hahaha so finally after a long time the troll has showed up again.! IF that idiot had read and understood what I have written here he wouldnt be repeating the same arguments that CAT had brought.That has already been brought up by THE CAT and I have refuted them .
Let me ask your foolish friend a few questions... 1) Why didnt the 4 righteous caliphs kill Abu Huraira as per quranic directive 5:33 if Abu Huraira was such a fabricator? 2) Why did 3 grandsons of Umar narrate hadiths from ABu Huraira knowing fully well that Abu Huraira was such a fabricator whom their grandfather completely hated? 3) Why did Aisha, Umar and other muslims allow Abu Huraira to lead the funeral prayers? The funeral prayers are lead by best of muslims so how come Abu Huraira was allowed ? 4) If you troll friend BMZ accepts Aisha and Ali ;s views on Abu Huraira how about accepting the hadith wherein Aisha narrates her age to be 9 when prophet of islam deflowered her???. How about accepting other hadiths from Ali ? If your friend could answer even a single question out of this coherently I will call it as a miracle. |
BMZ wrote: | ||||||
Thanks, Ahmed I read the reply from FFI's goon kid skynightblaze and this is what the clown wrote:
Ignoring the kid's stupid questions, I wish to bring his most idiotic question no. 3 to everybody's attention: The Ignorant Fool does not even know that nobody led the funeral prayers over Prophet. See how idiotic, ignorant and hilarious is this boy sknightblaze? Please let the kid know because we need to educate this Ignorant Fool. And can you ask the ignorant fool to call this a miracle, now that the idiot has been answered a minimum of one question, as the fool requested? Salaams BMZ |
Quote: |
Al-'Izzee (p. 110) also shows that when ?????????????????????¢??Aa?????????????????????¢??ishah and Hafsah died Aboo Hurayrah led the funeral prayers and Ibn 'Umar was among the attendees. This is reported by al-Bukharee in his Taareekh as-Saghaar, p. 52. Al-Haakim reports in al-Mustadrak (Vol. 4, p. 6), that Ibn 'Umar was among the people and had no objections.
Al-'Izzee remarks, "We know that the Muslims choose the best among them to lead funeral prayers, how much more so when it is the wife of their Prophet - (may Peace Be Upon Him) - in this world and the next?" |
Quote: |
@Egyptian muslim
Your article mentions 4:86 which is a medinan surah which I failed to address in my previous post .Lets see the context of the verse 4:86.. chapter 4 verse 86. When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things. . Ibn Kathir on 4:86 wrote:Allah said, [وَإِذَا حُيِّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيُّواْ بِأَحْسَنَ مِنْهَآ أَوْ رُدُّوهَآ] (When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally.) meaning, if the Muslim greets you with the Salam, then return the greeting with a better Salam, or at least equal to the Salam that was given. Therefore, the better Salam is recommended, while returning it equally is an obligation. http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11861 Did you read the underlined part? It says if MUSLIM GREETS you and not a non muslim so 4:86 is in respect of muslims rather than non muslims. |
Quote: |
Aysha told Abu Hurairah:Indeed, you are saying hadith about the prophet that I never heard from him.
So Abu Hurairah replied: You were busy with your adornments in front of the mirror, while I was never busy away from him in anything. See why I hate such freak of a so called Sahaba; he mocked his own mother, the mother of the believers, who is also suppose to be my mother. |
Quote: |
Zaid Ibn Thabit entered upon Muawiah, so Muawiah asked him about a hadith and commanded another man to write it; so Zaid said to Muawiah:
The messenger of Allah commanded us not to write anything from his hadith. So Muawiah deleted it See how Muawiah the corrupt khalifah had tendency for shirk and disobeying the porphet, he ordered a guy to write the hadith, then Zaid told him that this is not allowed as the prophet commanded, so Muawiah deleted it This means that all these man made books of crap hadith must be deleted and burnt, otherwise those hadith worshippers cannot be obeying the prophet. Another slam against the hadith worshippers and Mushrik Muslims from their own man made books that they worship |
Quote: |
I will ask you the same questions which I asked your troll friend BMZ .
1)Now If Abu Huraira was really a liar then how come the 4 righteous caliphs didnt kill abu Huraira as per 5:33 ??? Anyone who spreads mischief is to be killed as per 5:33 and muslims have been doing that throughout the islamic history. |
Quote: |
2) If Abu Huraira was a complete liar then how come he was allowed to lead the funeral prayer after Aisha and Hafsa's death? Aisha died at the age of 66 and Abu Huraira had almost approached his death at that time but yet that fellow was allowed to lead the funeral prayer. I hope you know that only best of the muslims is allowed to lead the funeral prayer. |
Quote: |
3) How come grandsons of Umar narrate hadiths from him if he was such blatant liar? I mean they would have known that Abu Huraira was a liar and hence wouldnt have narrated the hadiths from him. |
Quote: |
The above 3 questions confirm that Abu Huraira wasnt a complete liar and most of the stuff he told must be true. In general Abu Huraira seems to be a reliable person.One cant draw conclusions out of 1-2 incidents that show a particular person in negative light.In that case its safe to assume that whatever you brought to debunk Abu Huraira are exceptions . If they were a norm we wouldnt be seeing the companions of muhammad including the 4 righteous caliphs putting so much of trust in such a blatant liar so the moral is a person doesnt become unreliable just because 1 or 2 incidents show him negative light. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Bro
I like his new name Sky Ibn Abu Hurairah. Apparently he replied to you there. Cheers |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Bro
I like his new name Sky Ibn Abu Hurairah. Apparently he replied to you there.http://www.free-islam.com/modules/Forums/bbcode_box/images/bold.gif Cheers |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Bro
I like his new name Sky Ibn Abu Hurairah. Apparently he replied to you there.http://www.free-islam.com/modules/Forums/bbcode_box/images/bold.gif Cheers |
BMZ wrote: |
And the new name for the FFI minion yeezevee is:
yeezevee binte Ibn Ishaq. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||
Indeed mate, he is like a little girl. |
Quote: |
This is the equivalent of reporting a saying of Jesus like this: we got it from X, who was told by T, who heard it from B, that W did witness the testimony of Matthew stating that Jesus have said ''this and that'', AND a changing line of narrators for almost everyone of his sayings! |
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AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
Salam all
Another mother of all slams: Ex-Hindu and FFI kafir skynightblaze said to Ahmed: @CAT and Bahgat A simple question debunks you both.. Both of you argue for a quran only muslim case. Lets for a minute assume that ALL THE HADITHS ARE COMPLETELY UNRELIABLE . Now we have some hadiths that confirm quran so if you claim that ALL THE hadiths are unreliable how in the world can anyone believe in this nonsense that quran is authentic but yet the hadiths confirming quran are unauthentic? . Common sense tells us that If quran is authentic then hadiths confirming quran also must also be authentic so how can ALL the hadiths be unauthentic? ---------------- Ahmed says: Lol, see how ignorant you are, well you must be a clear cut deceiver too, a deceiver who is defending man made crap which you did not even read, how shameless, you confused ex-Hindu Your man made crap of rubbish hadith do not authenticate Quran, quite the contrary, your rubbish books of hadith doubt the Quran authenticity. For example, your man made rubbish books of hadith alleged that Abdullah Ibn Masoud refused to take Sura #113 & Sura #114 as being Quran. And I will surely find that crap for you, then come and slam dunk a shameless confused kafir like you. But for now, let me slam you with this from Nawawi man made book which explains to us the other man made book, Sahih Muslim: These are the first 3 verses in sura 92 as they appear in all Qurans found in the world: وَاللَّيْلِ إِذَا يَغْشَىٰ (1) By the night when it covers. [Al Quran ; 92:1] وَالنَّهَارِ إِذَا تَجَلَّىٰ (2) And (by) the day when it appears. [Al Quran ; 92:2] وَمَا خَلَقَ الذَّكَرَ وَالْأُنْثَىٰ (3) And (by) He Who created the male and female. [Al Quran ; 92:3] -> Can you see the underlined two words: مَا خَلَقَ , Ma Khalaq, i.e. (by) He Who created in verse 92:3. Your man made rubbish books of hadith tell us that these two words are not from Quran, see: Source
قال فكيف سمعت عبد الله يقرأ هذه الآية والليل إذا يغشى قال سمعته يقرأ والليل إذا يغشى والذكر والأنثى قال وأنا والله هكذا سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقرؤها ولكن هؤلاء يريدون أن أقرأ وما خلق فلا أتابعهم What they are saying above goes as follow: A guy said to another: How did you hear Abdullah Ibn Masoud reading verse 92:1? The other guy replied: I heard him reading like this: وَاللَّيْلِ إِذَا يَغْشَىٰ (1) By the night when it covers. [Al Quran ; 92:1] وَ الذَّكَرَ وَالْأُنْثَىٰ (3) And the male and female. [Al Quran ; 92:3] Ahmed says: Firstly, the allegation dropped verse 92:2, however, I am not going to pick on that, possibly he said it but they were just lazy to write it; but I am not going to let the corruption they alleged to verse 92:3 goes unnoticed, they alleged that Abdullah Ibn Masoud dropped these two words in his Quran because he believed that they are not part of Quran. This is how it is said above: The first guy replied back to the second who recited to him how Ibn Masoud memorised and read the above verses: Me too, by Allah, I heard the messenger of Allah reciting them like that, but these people want me to add these words: مَا خَلَقَ , He Who created, to them, and I will not follow them. Now, tell me confused and stubborn kafir skyarseblaze: Do your man made rubbish books of crap hadith prove the authenticity of Quran, or these man made books clearly doubt its authenticity? Now, you can shove your man made books of hadith up your arse and up WB?????????????????????¢??s arse, you have been mother slammed: |
Quote: |
Skynightblaze Bin Abu Hurairah:
Common sense tells us that If quran is authentic then hadiths confirming quran also must also be authentic so how can ALL the hadiths be unauthentic? |
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