AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Stop acting desperate like those hadith worshippers mister baal
they are the ones who didn't obey Mohammed by writings other books next to the Quran I'm the one who is fully obeying Mohammed and everything he said as stated in the Quran |
Baal wrote: |
So the book tells you to obey muhammad. |
Baal wrote: |
And what muhamad said is the book. |
Baal wrote: |
That is a nice point Ahmed but it some points do not gain more credibility beyond being a "nice point". We have to drop the "Nice points" when they do not match with reality. |
Baal wrote: |
33:21 - "uswa hasana" - a model to follow an excellent model of conduct (33:21). |
Baal wrote: |
4:80 - ?????????????????????¢??he who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad], obeys Allah?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? |
Baal wrote: |
How are we supposed to follow the model of muhammad from the koran alone? |
Baal wrote: |
Are we supposed to follow his model in talking to gibreel by any chance? |
Baal wrote: |
And other things missing from the koran, like how to pray, how to do the Haj, How to fast Ramadan, some Hudud was specified in koran but it does not cover most situations, how are we to cover them without koran? |
Searcher wrote: |
Like how can you know how to pray without the Hadith? |
Baal wrote: |
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own. |
Baal wrote: |
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder. |
Baal wrote: |
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you. |
Baal wrote: |
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book. Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways. |
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote: |
Bro, most hadiths are crap and need to be thrown in the rubbish bin, |
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote: |
but I do believe that some Hadiths are genuine and are authentic statements from the Great Prophet. |
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote: |
I believe that his statements regarding respecting your mother, and his statements regarding the good treatment of the poor, |
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote: |
and his statements giving a tafsir to some verses of the Quran are all authentic. |
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote: |
But many other hadiths need to be thrown away also. |
BMZ wrote: |
Muslims are defending Islam and Qur'aan. The ex-Muslims are defending hadith. lol!
BMZ |
BMZ wrote: |
I am following your discussions and you have done a great job in the posts which I read.
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/./viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1116 Your responses and those of others are excellent and I sincerely suggest that you bring the entire thread here for record before FFI hooligans litter the place and destroy it. You have put in a lot of time and effort for an easy demolition and it must be made available to readers here. Thanks, mate. I don't think FFI goons have ever seen anything like that. Salaams Baig M Z |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
I actually should, because this debate has resulted that the hostility between me and Khalil to stop, I feel a bit embarrassed due to his decent reply to me despite my insults, however i just could not forget at the time his insults to Allah, Mohammed, Muslims and the Quran I will try to copy it actually so everyone know why the hostility has stopped Take care |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
Hello Ahmed Bahgat,
First of all congratulations..! You demolished my first writing in this series with your superior knowledge of Quran. Indeed this is a great performance. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
One of the filthy, retarded, confused and shameless kafir on FFI (Khalil Fariel) is still promoting his ignorance desiring that the Muslims should uphold the crap called hadith, this is what the filthy has to say:
The retarded kafir Khlail Fariel said on FFI: |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
I will thank Ahmed for his time now though he does not seem to have taken much time to compose such knock-out stuff. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
I posted it earlier yesterday and Ahmed came with refutation within a short period of time. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
And after Ahmed posted it, all these times I was reading and thinking of the way of refuting it. But I could not find any way to counter those arguments. It is not easy to refute a solid argument if presented with enough back up sources. And to be frank,. If proven wrong, I have no problem in admitting it and here when it is Ahmed Bahgat as my contester, I do not consider this as a disgrace. Losing to a knowledgeable person is not a disgrace if our position is weak. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
All that said Ahmed, I will keep the opening post there though it is largely refuted by you. It must remain there for readers to go through and to get the story. But I have a request to you here: Since most of the readers will not be going through lengthy posts they will only read first few lines of your post and abandon it. So, you may edit your post to shorten it. To be frank, the first verse (3:31) you brought is sufficient to prove your case. (I am sure you know that but was only adding more stuffs to strengthen it but that is not necessary as you think.) You made your case handsomely using 3:31, so my suggestion is: your points will be more pronounced if you can just keep a few verses and erase the rest. If needed you have your website to post the full version for further uses.., |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
(Why do not you consider submitting some of your papers in academic faculties? |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
If you craft them neatly by obliterating punk, jerk, arse :x kinds of ad hominem stuffs, I am sure, you can broaden your credentials. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
And, I should not be arrogant here so let me say: if anyone can defend my contention and refute Ahmed Bahgat, they are welcome. My failure does not mean all else will. There are brilliant people around and who knows they will have a way to prove Ahmed wrong..! |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
I abandon this thread since it does not make sense to add my second line of arguments here in the same. This thread now belongs to Ahmed Bahgat because he is the winner. [background=white]I will start another thread with my remaining arguments on why Quran only approach is flawed. First argument is refuted but more still remain with me.[/background] But I understand I have to be more careful so, I will wait before posting. (I am sure; Ahmed Bahgat will come up there too) :) LOL |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
Regards and thank you Ahmed for your time, I stay corrected in this thread. KF |
skynightblaze wrote: |
@ahmed
I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran? |
Trojan wrote: |
Ahmed,
I know you will ignore me, but for the benefit of others and the thread, will you please explain the following: Where in the koran did allah tell you that all Muslim males have to be circumcized? Show me a single verse in the koran that says it. Yet you have willingly lobbed of the end of your son's penis' for generations .....no? Did this ritual not come from the hadiths ? ? ? |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
[background=white]And @Ahmed Bahgat[/background],
When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus?????????????????????¢??s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
why not try for it? |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed; |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
(I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there. |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults.Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don?????????????????????¢??t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :) |
KhaliL FarieL wrote: |
PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.
Cheers KF |
antineoETC wrote: |
Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:
Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?: Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)Thanks |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove? |
antineoETC wrote: |
Why don't you just answer my straightforward question Muslim? Otherwise just say "I'm not answering that" and let people draw their own conclusions. I'm not going to bring an english rendering of that verse and have you take issue with its accuracy. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
How about, you are dismissed |
antineoETC wrote: |
Another "slam dunk" by the "great debater" eh AB? |
antineoETC wrote: |
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021) |
antineoETC wrote: |
So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct? |
antineoETC wrote: |
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021) So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct? |
Centaur wrote: |
I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad? |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
One of the kafirs of FFI was not happy with Khalil decent concession to my refute:
So Khalil replied to him: Dear Centaur, Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084 This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat?????????????????????¢??s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it. And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time. Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities.. I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance. Please stay tuned. Regards KF |
Quote: |
Mohammed must have followed what Allah revealed to him, see this verse, another 100% Sahih hadith by Mohammed:
Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think? [The Quran ; 6:50] قل لا اقول لكم عندي خزائن الله ولا اعلم الغيب ولا اقول لكم اني ملك ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي قل هل يستوي الاعمي والبصير افلا تتفكرون -> How clear, again and again, see what Mohammed was saying to the people: Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Now every single Kafir and Mushrik Muslim should know that what was revealed to Mohammed can not be the man made crap books of hadith, this is because of two obvious reasons: 1- Such crap books called books of hadith did not exist during Mohammed time 2- Allah never revealed such man made crap books of hadith to Mohammed -> No wonder the verse is ending by telling those confused freaks in yet another 100% sahih hadith by Mohammed: Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think? And again Mohammed confirmed in his true hadith (through the Quran) that he was ONLY following what Allah has revealed to him Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner. [The Quran ; 46:9] قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين -> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me -> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute. The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible: |
Quote: |
And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance. [The Quran ; 2:170] واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما الفينا عليه اباءنا اولو كان اباؤهم لا يعقلون شيئا ولا يهتدون -> It can?????????????????????¢??t get clearer than this, see: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, THAT IS EXACTLY THE CASE WITH ALL THOSE MUSHRIK MUSLIMS BOUND TO HELL, every time I tell those freaks the same Quran message: Follow what Allah has sent down , they tell me boldly, how come all the previous generations in 1400 years were wrong, i.e. they must follow what their fathers used to follow: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers , and even if their fathers were confused as hell, they still follow them, that is is the exact same as the Christians and the Jews, all bound to hell, see what Allah is telling us next: even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance. , i.e. they are nothing but a bunch of stubborn Muzhiks who are in the process of securing their pits in hell. In fact using the same Muslim flawed argument that how come all these generations in 1400 years were flawed, then the Christian argument must be admissible too, that how come all those generations of Christians were flawed over 2000 years, if the Muslims use such flawed argument, then they should dare not to tell the Christians that their religion was flawed for 2000 years. This common flaw by the humans of following their parents even if their parents know nothing is very common in humanity, look around you and you should see most of those following a religion are only following what they inherited from their parents without thinking if their parents were wrong or not, for them, their parents must have been right: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire! [The Quran ; 31:21] واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما وجدنا عليه اباءنا اولو كان الشيطان يدعوهم الي عذاب السعير -> See: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It makes no difference to them if their parents were flawed, it is like they are invited by their parents to the hellfire and they are happy to follow them, see: It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire! In the next we read clearly what the believers should follow, let?????????????????????¢??s see: |
Quote: |
And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, and follow not the (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way; this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah).
[The Quran ; 6:153] وان هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه ولا تتبعوا السبل فتفرق بكم عن سبيله ذلكم وصاكم به لعلكم تتقون -> See what Allah is telling us to follow: And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, , in fact in the same verse Allah is warning us not to follow any other path: and follow not the (other) ways , sounds like Allah is warning us against these crap books of hadith that He never sent, see what Allah is telling us next, that is if we follow such non sense books of hadith (the other ways): for they will lead you away from His way, HOW CLEAR, this is exactly what happened to the confused Muslims, they ignored what Allah has sent which we should only follow, and followed other man made crap which Allah never sent, which resulted in the division of Islam into numerous sects and ideologies. Can you see that by listening to Allah we will be Muttaqeen (fearful of Allah): this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah). , however the confused Muslims do not want to do that, they do not want to fear Allah, they only fear the heads of shirk through their Mullah, Imams, Muftis and Sheikhs, for them, what those confused punks (the hadith writers and their followers) say, is more of a value than what Allah says. I seek refuge in Allah. In fact, two verses down, Allah clearly told us what His straight path that we should follow is: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy. [The Quran ; 6:155] وهذا كتاب انزلناه مبارك فاتبعوه واتقوا لعلكم ترحمون -> How clear, certainly the straight path of Allah must be through His Quran, see: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy., therefore those who do not follow it, or shirk it with other books that Allah never sent down do not fear Allah nor they will receive mercy from Him. We also read in the Sahih Hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) that he asked those freaks to bring another book (FROM ALLAH) other than the Quran that is better so he may follow it: |
Quote: |
Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it, if you are truthful.
[The Quran ; 28:49] قل فاتوا بكتاب من عند الله هو اهدي منهما اتبعه ان كنتم صادقين -> See the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it. Well we know well that all these man made crap books of hadith are not FROM ALLAH, so how come we should follow it? The verse here is clear, that we may follow other books but only if: 1- The book is from Allah 2- The book is better in guidance than the Quran Now the man made books of hadith are not from Allah nor they are better guidance than the Quran, therefore Muslims have committed no sin by not following such crap books of man made hadith, according to 28:49 Mohammed was a warner for those who accept and follow the Quran, see this verse: |
Quote: |
Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, little that you remember.
[The Quran ; 7:3] اتبعوا ما انزل اليكم من ربكم ولا تتبعوا من دونه اولياء قليلا ما تذكرون -> Very clear that Allah is telling us to follow what he sent down: Follow (plural) what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, , there will be no punk of those kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims who has balls to tell us that these man made crap books of hadith are what Allah has sent down. The fact remains intact, that those punks from among the kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims do not want to remember: little that you remember. In the next verse we read another Sahih hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) in such hadith, it is clearly said that Mohammed was a believer in Allah words, not Bukhari words, not Muslim words, and certainly not any of those confused hadith writers words: |
Quote: |
And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me; indeed I fear if I disobey my Lord, the torture of a mighty day.
[The Quran ; 10:15] واذا تتلي عليهم اياتنا بينات قال الذين لا يرجون لقاءنا ائت بقران غير هذا او بدله قل ما يكون لي ان ابدله من تلقاء نفسي ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي اني اخاف ان عصيت ربي عذاب يوم عظيم -> See: And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. , well it seems that all those hadith writers and their fellow Mushrik Muslims were not happy with the Quran alone, and because Mohammed was dead at that and this time, so they could not ask him likewise the kafir asked him, to bring another book but the Quran, so they created their own books, many of them that contradict each other, as well contradict itself, these books can not be called the straight path, they are indeed the deviant path that most Muslims chose to follow in addition to the straight path of Allah (the Quran), see what Mohammed said to those freaks request as stated in his Sahih Hadith (through the Quran): Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, i.e. by following Mohammed, we should follow what was revealed to him from Allah, this revelation is nothing but the Quran, that is why those freaks asked him to bring another Quran other than the Quran that Allah sent. You should know that the word Quran implies reading, i.e. those freaks were asking for other books so they read it and seek guidance from it, and that is exactly what happened to the confused Ummah of Muslims, they read such man made books and spread its message between the believers while totally ignoring the Quran, or just giving it the least attention, they are fixated on such man made carp books of hadith, the man made books that Allah never sent or revealed to anyone. No wonder that Mohammed himself will bear witness against them on the judgment day, let?????????????????????¢??s read: |
Quote: |
And the messenger would say: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.
[The Quran ; 25:30] وقال الرسول يا رب ان قومي اتخذوا هذا القران مهجورا -> How clear, the prophet is bearing witness against his own people that they ignored the Quran: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran. Following Mohammed or any other prophet for that matter, is nothing but following the path of Allah, this is because Mohammed had no mean to warn or guide the people except with the Quran, therefore if we follow Mohammed in the Quran then we are automatically following the path of Allah: |
Quote: |
Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9] قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين -> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me -> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute. The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible: |
Quote: |
And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful. [The Quran ; 39:45] واذا ذكر الله وحده اشمازت قلوب الذين لا يؤمنون بالاخرة واذا ذكر الذين من دونه اذا هم يستبشرون -> See the striking similarity: And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful. I agree that the verse above is talking about those who do not believe in the hereafter, while all those confused Muslims claim to believe in the hereafter, however how we know that those Muslims really believe in the hereafter, see these verses: |
Quote: |
And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone. [The Quran ; 72:18] وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا -> How clear again, I say yeh those Imams mention the name of the Allah, BUT ONLY WHEN THEY PRAISE MOHAMMED, i.e. when they mention Mohammed, they say Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, see in the process of praising Mohammed, they mentioned Allah, WITHOUT PRAISINSG ALLAH, in fact if you read the English writings of many of those confused Muslims, you will always see most of them writing the word Mohammed then after it in brackets (SAWS), i.e. the confused freaks abbreviated the name of Allah to the letter A while writing the name of Mohammed complete, HOW DUMB AND CONFUSED THEY ARE. The Arab writers are as confused as those English writers, when they write Mohammed in Arabic you see after it straight away in very tiny font and the words on top of each other ?????????????????????¢??Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam?????????????????????¢?? in Arabic, you can barely ready the word Allah in it, or they just write the letter ?????????????????????¢??Sad?????????????????????¢?? between brackets, you can see a sample on this web site http://www.tibneen.com/Mohammad.aspx , how clear that those confused Muslims are clearly Mushrikoon and idol worshippers of Mohammed. you know why those Mushrikoon shorten the words Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam because they mention Mohammed zillions of times in like 15 minutes speech or one page document, they have to bloody shorten it, otherwise when you try to read such writing it may look like that it is the only sentence in there Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, regardless of my joke, the fact remains intact that they also mention the name of Allah zillions of times while when they praise Mohammed, while absolutely not caring to praise Him the slightest, all they care about is to praise Mohammed, let me show you the next verse and see for yourself the striking similarity: |
Quote: |
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 4:64] وما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله ولو انهم اذ ظلموا انفسهم جاؤوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما -> See: And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , see, even Mohammed was following and obeying the message of Ibrahim, therefore if we do the same, then we are followers and obedient to the commands of Allah. In the following verse, we read that those unjust people when they face the music of death, they will ask Allah to delay their death so they follow the MESSENGERS: |
Quote: |
Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
[The Quran ; 39:18] الذين يستمعون القول فيتبعون احسنه اولئك الذين هداهم الله واولئك هم اولوا الالباب -> See: Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; , certainly all these man made books of hadith are the sayings of all these people, it can not be the saying of Allah, therefore according to 39:18, the believers in Allah are permitted to reject many of these hadith sayings that can not be the best of sayings, how the following can be the best of saying: 1- The allegation that the prophet married Aysha when she was 6 years old, which does not make any sense. 2- The allegation that the prophet used to sleep with all his wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night while not having a bath in between, which contradict the Quran 3- The allegation to drink camel urine, which does not make any sense 4- The allegation of stoning the adulterers, which contradicts the Quran 5- The allegation of killing the apostates, which contradicts the Quran. 6- The allegation that the prophet used to drink wine, which contradicts the Quran I can keep listing many of such crap and non sense that are only found in the man made crap books of hadith. There is only one criteria to be able to judge if any saying is bad, good or best, the criteria is simply to compare all such conjectures with the Quran, if it violates it the slightest then such saying can not be best, nor even good, rather a clear cut bad saying that much be rejected and dismissed in the nearest rubbish bin, yet you see most of those Muslims upholding such non sense as if it is from other divine books next to the book of Allah, would that be a type of SHIRK? I say it has to be if you read the following verse: |
Quote: |
And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, indeed the unbelievers are your obvious enemy.
[The Quran ; 4:101] واذا ضربتم في الارض فليس عليكم جناح ان تقصروا من الصلاة ان خفتم ان يفتنكم الذين كفروا ان الكافرين كانوا لكم عدوا مبينا -> See how clear the reason to shorten the prayer as stated by Allah: And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, i.e. IF ONLY THE UNBELIEVERS IN SUCH LAND MAY CAUSE DISCORD TO US WHEN THEY SEE US PRAYING, it has absolutely nothing to do with distances, rather the fear that the unbelievers in such land where we travelled will try to cause discord to you, it can be even in next town 5 Km away, and certainly if I travel 1000 km to a land where its people will not cause discord to me when they see me praying, then there is absolutely no shortening in my prayer. The above example proves the stupidity and ignorance of most Muslims, you know why they are so stupid and ignorant when it comes to the religion, because they are blindly following what their parents taught them, fine accept what your parent teach you, but as long as it does not contradict or manipulate what Allah has commanded regarding the same matter, now if you do and take such non sense of a reason to shorten the prayer, then I am sorry to tell you that 42:21 must apply to you, because YOU FOLLOWED WHAT THESE PEOPLE PRESCRIBED IN THE RELIGION THAT ALLAH NEVER SANCTIONED, and in this case of shortening the prayer, Allah even sanctioned something else that is totally ignored by all those Muslims who shorten their prayer, I am telling you, these people must be Mushrikoon along their belief. It cannot get more obvious for Allah sake. |
Quote: |
And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18] وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا |
parvez_mushtaq wrote: |
This verse reminds me a program that I watched on QTV by Dr. Tahir ul Qadri
As per him, he meladun-nabi should be celebrated and the justification he gave is very perfect He started by saying three questions will be asked in the grave 1 who is you GOD 2 what is you religion 3 who is your prophet He explains this in this way 1st. who is your GOD The answer of this question will decide whether a person is a believer or not In other words an atheist or a believer So if the person answers yes, then he is decided as a believer and the answer is no then he goes hell direct So assuming he answered ?????????????????????¢??yes?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? then the second question asked ?????????????????????¢??what is your relgion?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? If he answered Islam, then he is cornered if he answers something apart from this ( like jew, or a Christian or hindu ) he goes to hell Now the cornered muslim is asked the 3rd and important question ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And only answer of this question takes him to the heaven If he answer?????????????????????¢??s Mohammed (pbuh) then he goes heaven otherwise to the hell So he says , you can be a believer as well as a Muslim but if you don?????????????????????¢??t know the name of your prophet then you go to hell So the third and most important question is ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? The deciding question, you cannot go to heaven even if you are a believer or a Muslim So in order to remember his name, we should celebrate festivals like meladdun-nabi I don?????????????????????¢??t think he is wrong in his statement as far as I believe that I will be asked this three question So where is the mistake in his statement , why people are against meladdun nabi See, only celebrating meladdun nabi will take you to heaven , lol and he conveniently omitted even hadiths in his justification |
Quote: |
Salam bother
I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you |
Quote: |
Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent
Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others |
Quote: |
Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.
The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge. I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say? |
Quote: |
Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less
However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children. Take care |
Quote: |
Re: Good Bye To All Friends & Foes Postby Cassie ????????????????????????????» Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:03 am I suspect some of you Muslims reject the hadiths because they show just how horrible Muhammad was. Hence, you 'retreat' to become quran-only, thinking that it makes Islam less of a target of ridicule. However, you could not be more wrong - the Quran is horrible because it was created by a horrible person. The primitivity and savagery shows through. What sort of man would enslave little children and force slaves to have sex? What sort of evil person would take booty and spread 'terror' throughout the land? The Quran is an evil-inspired piece of work and it shows, Muslim. It really shows. Being a Quran-only Muslim doesn't make you a good person. You're still following a despicable savage theology, created by a despicable savage person. |
parvez_mushtaq wrote: | ||||||||
take your time brother
well , i dont think they are correct in this because , quran clearly tells barzakh is unseen and its secret belongs to ALLAH alone all other are wild guesses
he had already done that he simply said , only answering the third question will take a MUSLIM to jannah which means even a he be a believer if he does not answer the third question then he goes to hell
celebrating own birthday is one thing and celebrating prophet's birthday is other non of his companions celebrated it in fact do they precisely know the date of birth of prophet as we know our birth day is this equivalent to Christmas are they competing with Christmas and krishna jayanthi uh what ever jazak ALLAH Mushtaq |
Quote: |
You have some very valid points mate, and I tend to agree with you especially with the birth issue
Cheers |